I'm probably as guilty as anyone of giving turkeys too much credit for their ability to "outwit" a hunter... but I don't think a turkey can differentiate between a hen calling and a person calling, provided the calling is decent. I agree that turkeys become human shy and have learned to adapt to human interference. If that involves not answering turkey calls or not gobbling, I don't think it's call shyness, it's just a learned behavior that gobbling attracts trouble... and on that note we could get into another discussion of how coyotes effect gobbling. Everytime they gobble, they get stalked... doesn't take long to figure that out! (On a sad note, I found a VERY fresh coyote kill on one of my properties Friday. I was furious... a nice 2 year old gobbler. He was not there Wednesday morning, but freshly killed, probably Thursday. I know it happens all the time, but it's painful when you witness it or find the results of it.)

In preperation for some afternoon hunting with Abby (crossing fingers for rain so she can get out of softball games/practice!) I just went and set a couple blinds... and dressed up like the farmer and drove the 4 wheeler along the cattle checking route at the same time the farmer does on his 4 wheeler... just in case, you know!

Havent seen a myth hold true yet. Prob call as many down hill as I do up hill every year. East wind isnt true. Have called em across large bodies of water to many times to believe that one. Got em to leave hens, even pitch from one ridge to another ridge leaving them. I also dont believe in a call shy bird and I hunt some hard pressured public land birds in some spots. They may not gobble as much after the first few weeks or when coming in but I believe every bird is killable no matter the pressure or scenario. Heck Ive even missed a bird only to go back the next day and kill him. How many people have killed birds from being shot previously? I dont know how many pellets Ive found that wasnt my own. Turkeys are way to social to run from "other" turkeys. People have came up with all kinds of excuses or reasons over the years for why they couldnt kill a bird. GN I dont believe turkeys are smart enough to recognize a call. I do believe the more realistic you sound the better off you are BUT some real hens would place last in a calling contest. A turkey isnt very smart. Ever seen a flock of birds get spooked near a fence? They will run up and down panicking trying to find a way to cross instead of going under or flying over like any other day. As far as pitching down. I see more pitch uphill whatever that direction may be than anything. My favorite is this and I see it on every forum. You can't call him where he wasnt plan on going anyway. Im pretty sure a gobbler never said hey I think I will leave these hens and take a stroll, or I need to stretch my wings and fly over there or I wonder whats over there in that thicket . Im not saying they cant be aggravating cause they can depending on their mood and breeding phase but stay after him long enough he will make a mistake.

Grey. I am not sure we are really disagreeing that much. I think it's more semantics. What I am calling call shy you and Freddy are calling hunter shy or pressured birds. I more than once have missed a gobbler and called him up an hour later and killed him so I do know what you are saying. I have also seen heavily pressured birds gobble their heads off until the instant you call to them and immediately shut up. Human shy or call shy it is semantics to me. I do believe these birds are shy of going to a hen call, regardless of if they can differentiate between a hen and a hunter.

I will say this in response to GN's boss hen theory. I think those boss hens are territorial or jealous rather than call shy. That is why they so often take the gobbler straight away. That's my theory. Having said this there is no doubt in my mind that some gobblers can recognize the call of their hens...I believe. I've been humbled way too many times when I thought my calling was so sweet, only to have the real hen come into the area...squawk like a dying duck 3 times...gobbler goes absolutely nuts and immediately forgets he ever knew me. I believe this observation that indicates turkeys have the ability of voice recognition makes it entirely plausible that some gobblers get so pressured they respond differently to a recognized member of the harem and any other sweet but unfamiliar call. Maybe that's a stretch and pressured...boogered birds just stop responding to any call ...real or not... and shut up and wait on the hen to come to them...which is how nature designed anyway. Very good discussion.

Yes, agree to agree. Also in that I even forget once and a while and you touched on it, that we are reversing nature. Voice recognition is another area also. They do I believe also know their flocks voices just like we never forget our mothers or fathers voice in a crowd of people. But gobblers will travel miles during mating season in some cases and the Jakes break off from their flocks in the late fall to find other turkeys outside their own flock, mother natures way of preventing some in-breeding.

Very good insight from all thanks. Got to go and hopefully reverse nature for a friend of mine who is getting to the point of giving up this
year.


Earl

turkeupicker just took the time to expand on my views( or what l was trying to say ) as l should have done the first time through on this discussion. When l use the term call shy l really includedin my mind but not my typing all the aspects of the factors he described. thanks for the expansion. well done.

Turkey Slayer---intrigued by these two statements in your comment:s earlier: " . Got em to leave hens, even pitch from one ridge to another ridge leaving them.' VERSUS this statement a few lines later: " My favorite is this and I see it on every forum. You can't call him where he wasnt plan on going anyway. Im pretty sure a gobbler never said hey I think I will leave these hens and take a stroll""....is it my thick head or are these two statement completely opposite and inconsistent?

On the other hand maybe it goes back to what l said way back there , there are Myth exceptions that very accomplished and experienced hunter can point to, and NEVER and Always are just wasted words in discussing turkey behavior. My view of the Truth is no one knows EVERYtime what a bird is going to do.

In my opinion its 50% putting time in the woods scouting, and just hunting as often as you can, 30% in your setup( decoy placement, how good your hidden) , 10% calling(I only say 10 because I have called in birds when Iwas younger with a plastic box call that I'm sure sounded nothing like a turkey), and 10% luck. JMO.

The longer I hunt turkeys the more I feel like the turkey just had a bad day when I get one. It's the dangdest feeling, like you can never really point at an accomplishment of getting one, they just were being dumb or messed up.

This

[quote="Gobblenow"]Turkey Slayer---intrigued by these two statements in your comment:s earlier: " . Got em to leave hens, even pitch from one ridge to another ridge leaving them.' VERSUS this statement a few lines later: " My favorite is this and I see it on every forum. You can't call him where he wasnt plan on going anyway. Im pretty sure a gobbler never said hey I think I will leave these hens and take a stroll""....is it my thick head or are these two statement completely opposite and inconsistent?

On the other hand maybe it goes back to what l said way back there , there are Myth exceptions that very accomplished and experienced hunter can point to, and NEVER and Always are just wasted words in discussing turkey behavior. My view of the Truth is no one knows EVERYtime what a bird is going to do..

Exactly. If they were predictable they wouldnt be fun to hunt But they will also do things there not suppose to which makes any myth busted even if he only did it once. It should be said that your odds are decreased in such and such situation. As far as those 2 quotes I believe you misunderstood them but Im also confused after rereading it . Wait, I am confused. Lack of sleep must be getting to me lol. I read a lot where people say you cant call em where they wasnt plan on going. Not really on this forum but others. I believe that is totally false just by thinking back about some of the places Ive lured them into, having them leave hens to come check out the hen in the bush, ect. When I said "Im pretty sure a gobbler never thought hey i think i will leave these hens and take a stroll ect" what I was getting at was when he did leave them to come look for the other "hen" or fly across a body of water or from ridge to ridge is he did something he wasnt suppose to do which goes back to contradict "calling them only where they intended to go anyways" . Are you even more confused now cause I am lol. I think I'm heading to bed zzzzzzzzz