Just curious. Most folks getting these killer patterns are shooting size 6. (lead or Hevi). How many pellets do you need in the head and neck of a turkey with size 4 as compared to 6's. Will five hits in the neck and head disable a gobbler as compared with say 10-15 hits with size 6. How dead is dead?

One pellet in the right spot will do the trick, 5 #4's in the neck and head will definitely work as long as they hit vital areas; brain or spine.

At what ranges have you patterned your gun?
Was #4 shot all that you used?

barry

i'll try to find my data regarding down range energy in foot pounds later this evening when i'm at home. but i do remember that hevi shot 6s hit as hard as lead 4s. that's the HS advantage.
HS 6s hit like lead 4s
HS 5s hit like lead 3s (if there were such a pellet size)
HS 4s hit like lead 2s

The new Hevi-13 is more dense than the regular HS. I believe this actually translates to HS13 6s hitting harder than lead 4s but not quite as hard as lead 2s.

All of this is "at 40 yards".

If you can put 10 pellets in a skoal can at 40 yards and you're shooting anything from 4s, 5s or 6s...GO HUNT!

...just my opinion...but i do have some data to back this up...

Go to this link... http://shotshell.drundel.com/pelletcount.htm scroll to the bottom of the page. You will see a pellet performance comparsion between #4 shot in hevi-shot, tungsten matrix, tungsten iron, bismuth, lead and steel.

At 30 yards, I had 12 hits with a number 4 in the head/neck of a gobbler target. However at 35 yards the pattern with four fell off a good bit. The Winchester 5's gave a few more hits, but not many more. The Hevi-6 was a fair bit better at 30 yards and equal to the 4's at 35 yards. This was with a Remington Factory super full choke tube not rated for hevishot. Not done yet, but out to 35 yards I think any gobbler would be stoned.

I switched to lead 4s about 10 years ago and will only use a gun that shoots 4s well. Now, keep in mind this was before Heavyshot and I know Diablo's data is trustworthy so smaller shot size in HS is probably just as good. With lead 4s my turkeys flop very little, if at all, particularly when the shot is at the outer edge of comfortable shooting range...i.e. 35-40 yards. Lead 4s have never disappointed me. I shoot 3" Winchester High Velocity #4s in 1 3/4 oz loads because they pattern extremely well out of my gun (I'm getting an average of 25-30 pellets in the head and neck at 40 yards; 15-20 at 45 yards). When I purchased an aftermarket choke for my gun I called the manufacturer and told them what I wanted to shoot (#4s) and they told me which choke to buy, and they were dead on.

Having said that the main reason I responded was due to your "how dead is dead" question/statement. I love that statement, and its dead on regarding this subject. I mean no disrespect to anyone when I say this but I think we as a group (turkey hunters) sometimes make too much out of the perfect gun/choke/load combination. Don't misunderstand me; I think we all should know the limitations of our gun and when we get a new gun I think we should find the best load for that gun, but I believe if you have something that works and kills each bird you shoot then there really is no more room for improvement. Dead is dead no matter how you slice it.

Again, I mean no disrespect to anyone by these statements...just expressing an honest opinion.

-Eric

Out of my SBE with a Comp-n-choke .655 Winchester 3.5" HV in size 5 is super. Think I've shot 5 Gobblers with this set-up and none have done anything but flop after getting hit. However, I think the longest shot was probably 35 yards.

Since I've been working on trying to find the best load for my 870 20 gauge I've tried several different loads and chokes. At 30 yards I think the Winchester size 4 3" loads are awesome. They don't however hold together at 35. Guess the amount of shot is just too low in size 4. However at 30 yards I've got probably 12-15 hits in the head neck region. They would certainly do the job.

Looking forward to Winchester coming out with the Xtended loads in 20 gauge. I'll figure out what shoots best out of this thing in due course as it will sure make a nice mountain turkey gun for sure. Figure if you can have a mountain deer rifle you can certainly have a mountain turkey gun.