I have dived into the world of Smokeless Muzzleloading this summer. Mostly because I am tired of cleaning my .50 Cal BP every time I shoot it and have wanted to do this for a while.

I did some research on the subject and decided that the best route for me was to convert something for my Encore Frame.. I ended up with this rig.. it is an Encore 45/70 Bergera Barrel which will convert to a .45 cal SML. I had a Smith put in a Savage Breach Plug that is made for the Savage production Smokeless Guns. I topped it with a EGW base and TPS rings with a Nikon Monarch 3 2.5X10 by 42 scope..

I have been working on dialing in the right load and bullet combo.. I started out with H4198 reloading powder and Hornady SST 200 grains with Harverster Light Blue Sabots .. I was not happy with the first range trip.. I took the scope off and Lapped the rings and remounted.. I then tried different bullets 195 grain Barnes Expanders with the same powder and sabots.. I now am shooting a 2 inch group at 100 and it was a 4 inch drop at 200 yds .. pretty happy with this.. that is with 57 grains of H4198 Powder .. the muzzle velocity is somewhere around 2500 fps although I don't own a chrono to measure it exactly (I am going off of what others have tested) .. I still have some range work to do.. I want to gradually increase my powder by a grain and try to get up to 59 or 60 grains without blowing a sabot to try to get a bit more MV .. this has been fun and I am learning a lot.. I can't wait till ML season now

Some pics of the rig and targets..

That's awesome. I didn't know that it was possible to re-barrel a 45-70 for muzzleloading. I'd be interested in seeing the ballistics as far as muzzle energy and trajectory of what you come up with. It's always fun to tinker! That's why I make my own arrows and handload TSS.

Yea.. 40 grain bullets with a Sabot fit perfectly in a 45/70 rifle barrel.. you have to use a rifle barrel with smokeless powder and get a Breach that is rated for smokeless as well, a production BP barrel or breach is not rated for it.

Some guys shoot sabotless in order to increase powder and get more muzzle velocity.. but from what I understand you should invest in a sizing die if you go that route because the bullet may not fit perfectly otherwise. If you increase powder too much with a sabot it will just blow up the sabot and the bullet will not fly straight, is the reason some guys go sabotless ..

I have just been going off of what others have tested and recorded already as far as muzzle velocity.. I don't own a Chronograph yet.. but may get one if I keep playing around..

That is very cool, Randy. Great looking gun, too. Keep us posted come ML

That is a very nice looking sniper ML for deer. I got to get one for 2 of the grandkids this year that want to deer hunt. How is the recoil on those for 9 and 10 year olds? They both shot 20 gauges very well. Since I never been a gun deer hunter this is a new world for me. Or would just a 20 ga. Slug be better for them? Thanks.

By the way very nice group. The one out side looks like just a breath control issue.

Earl

Earl,

I've had my daughter try some reduced loads for muzzleloader at the range with mixed results. She is 13 but thin, and anything approaching 80 grains she was not really wanting to shoot. On the other hand, she has no problem shooting the 20 gauge H&R Ultra Slug gun. Very accurate and it really likes the Lightfield 2 3/4 slugs. Heavy gun plus lighter load equals good shooting for youngsters.

Now for me, the 45/70 conversion looks mighty cool!

Earl.. It kicks.. Light gun high amount of powder.. You could lower powder but your groups might suffer.. If you truly want something for them for the early ML season I would stick with a true BP gun that is a bit heavier and go with 80 grains of loose powder.. If going with a slug gun I think a heavy 12 gauge like an 1100 or 1187 would be best for recoil.. I have an 1100 slug barrel gun and it hardly kicks at all with 2 3/4 slugs.. Good out to 100 but not any further..

I have never shot one of the H&R slug guns.. but from what I understand they are a bit heavier and a dream to shoot .. and I hear the 20 is more accurate than the 12 .. and not too hard on the pocket book either... so that may be your best option..

I will chime in in two ways. Randy, nice looking smokeless ML for sure. Have read about guys in other states go this route with a lot of interest. Secondly, I'll chime in on the mention of an H&R slug gun. I built an H&R slug gun from components purchased on the H&R forum on GBO. I wanted a slug gun for the Radford Arsenal hunts when I get drawn. I've been playing with it for a few years and I have to say, a pleasure to shoot. Something just unique about sending that large hunk of lead downrange and the relatively light kick of the 20 gauge. Very little fitting by me was needed to get the barrel and frame matched. I think I have $240 in the gun including scope, base, rings and gun. Once you find the slug that the gun likes, it's a true pleasure to shoot. Haven't shot a deer with it yet but have been itching at the chance. From the hole it leaves in the target, I can't imagine a deer is going to fair well hit by the 20 gauge slug. So, sorry Randy to hijack the thread but wanted to chime in that a 20 gauge heavy slug barrel on an H&R frame is a decent alternative for a simple 100 yard deer getter. Put it on an SB2 frame instead of a SB1 frame and you now have the option of both shotgun and rifle barrels at a discount from the Thompson Center price point. I like to call it a poor man's TC and building it was part of the fun.