I keep track of the age of the deer off our farm. This doe I shot the other night is the oldest one yet:

5-6 yrs old?

Lots of dentine, a little wider then the enamel. Back cusp is gone along with the 2nd and 3rd tooth. Teeth have not worn down to bad yet. I would say 5 1/2.

Earl

text book 5.5....but from what I understand, by that age in the text book they are usually a few years older in reality.

Not really, it depends what they are eating. Say a deer on a main diet year in and out that are eating acorns hard mass) their teeth will wear a little quicker then say soft grain (grass) substance. The amount of dentine is a key but the only other way would be X-ray. All biologists that I know for research and study purposes go with the text book and not the what ifs.

Earl

I killed one several years ago the biologist estimated to be 8 1/2.
Saw that deer several times before getting a shot and she was the spookiest deer of any I have ever seen.

Intersting.....I got that from the guy who runs the whitetail program for vdgif

The tooth wear and replacement method sets a minimum, and I fully agree with the assessment that starting at age 3.5 by the book, a lot of older deer are still falling into those classifications.

By the book, a deer would have no teeth after 8 years old. In reality, whitetails have been documented to live as long as 20+ years.

That's awesome Barry. Not too many like that running around. I've shot one other that aged 5.5 by the jaw....a NC buck....but nothing older.

Our experience is that the jaw bone aging system is only accurate for 0.5 to 2.5 year old deer. Beyond that, it all goes out the window. The state biologists will admit to that pr our conversations about the DMAP jawbones we've sent for the last 12 years. They can be sent off to a lab for aging that is very accurate. Maybe you would want to try that.

I will agree with 20 years in captivity but only 10 (high side) in the wild.

What book? Are you referring to Matt Knox (VDGIF)? I agree with him to lower the deer heard in VA. I know a lot of hunters disagree with him but I believe if the powers to be will loosen the harness on him he will improve the overall whitetail quality here in VA.

Earl

Earl, if you think the entire deer herd of VA needs reducing then you need to come to the mountains and hunt. I've spoken with several good deer hunters that took vacation and hunted the mountains only to see a number of deer they could count on one hand.
Used to be you could ride from my house up to the Peaks of Otter Lodge on the parkway and back and see 50-75 deer, now you're lucky if you 1/10 that amount. Bear and coyotes have taken a toll on fawns over the last 3-4 years IMO, either that or the deer have just moved out.
Used to be a rare evening I would hunt and not see deer, now I'm doing good to see deer 25% of the time.

Earl, there are at least 2 documented cases of does being harvested that had been tagged 20 years earlier....in the wild. Both out of Alabama, if I recall correctly.

Just another fat nanny head, can't wait to pull the teeth

Yes, I agree with you. The point I was trying to make was I do agree deer need reduced in certain areas. The biologists in VA and other States have a tough job to accomplish with limited resources (money). They of course can't please everyone. A deer management symposium meeting I went to a few years ago (there was a turkey one at the same time) There were about 100 folks showed up for the general public meeting and I would say 70% of them wanted better quality deer and if meant reducing the deer heard to accommodate the carrying capacity for the area then they were for it.

Now since I am not that involved with deer management much any more I am not sure what the State is doing to better the deer heard. Matt I know of last year or 2010/2011 was looking to reduce the deer heard and I would hope in areas where the deer heard needs reduced and looking into those areas that the heard has been reduced to bring them back.

I know the mountains have a lot of old timber 70+ years and when timber gets that old it stunts the growth of 2nd growth that is a main stable of not only deer but turkey and I am sure other species.

I am a huge supporter of controlled burns and seen what it has done for other States and their wildlife. Something I do not believe the State does much of (large burns). Now at the Wild Turkey Management meeting I went to this past spring I did talk with a couple State reps there and they indicated that the State was looking into more controlled burns.

Don't know much about the forestry side here in the State or their logging operation. (another key factor)

Barry I know where you are coming from with the deer in the mountains. It used to be my favorite turkey hunting from the early 80's till the mid 90's here in VA when I started to see a drop in the turkey population. I love hunting mountain turkey. But I got spoiled with the increase in turkey populations else where.

I remember back in the late 50's till mid 80's depending on State you would walk for days (week) to find a fall flock. Spring if you heard a bird you had a good day.

I remember talking with deer hunters not seeing a deer in the 30's40's and 50's and then deer became plentiful. And now today the deer are decreasing in numbers in the same areas.

What is happening to the hunting in the mountains, not just our State but others as well, I have not a clue. The folks that are getting paid to manage our resources we must trust in them.

Earl

I can believe that. Being Alabama and only 2 cases there are exceptions with mild to little winters. Again there are so many variables in wildlife management areas, climate, diet, etc. That when talking on a forum it is hard to express ones thoughts or knowledge of what the other may be talking about. I just was referring to to local deer studies and in PA.

Thats why I like every 5 years turkey biologists from around the country get together for a turkey symposium. And then get a copy of it and see the huge difference and the various biologists input and disagreements they have.

Wayne Bailey introduced the first Wild Turkey Symposium back in 1949 and they have had one every 5 years. The NWTF started sponsoring them back in I believe1978. Very interesting reading if you can find copies of them and how turkey management has progressed over the years. Don't know if they do something like that for deer every few years.

Earl

If you read the articles written by the state biologists (for instance in the most recent issue of Whitetail Times), they cannot explain the decline in the Mountains either. Most likely a combination of factors.

The problem in my part of Bedford is that most guys drop every small buck that walks by, but won't shoot the does. Shots been ringing out since the beginning of muzzleloader. Since that time the legion of yearling bucks tromping my woods has gone from a flood, to a trickle, to now there's almost none.

Hate to get back on topic, but here's this evenings jawbone....4.5....it's the one on the bottom alongside another doe from a few years ago that aged 4.5