I would like to start off by saying nice board and I will defiantly be returning. Found it through an article in the Roanoke Times.

I was wondering if any of you could offer me some advice. I am in the market for a new rifle. This is a fairly unique opportunity that I have money I can spend on it guilt free since it was given to me for this purpose. I do not have to worry about how I should be saving it or using it to pay off cars or the other bills that we are all responsible for. It is enough money that I can get a decent gun but not a ridiculous overpriced gun.

I am considering a 7mm or 300 and the possibility of wsm calibers. I want a gun that I can take just about anywhere when the opportunity arises. I have a lot of friends moving out west and they are starting to encourage me to come out for a visit/hunt. So I would be shooting anywhere from 20 yards out to 200 or a little more. My question for all of you is should I get a bolt or an automatic and why?

Let me explain my thoughts. People claim that bolt actions are more accurate. This may be true but I imagine that they are not that much more accurate in mass produced guns such as what I would most likely be able to afford. The other point is that the minute difference in accuracy probably would not be noticeable in my shooting skills. To be honest, my accuracy is going to be more dependant on my shooting skills that the limitations of my gun. I also wan a gun that looks pretty so it will most likely be made from real wood and not a composite. So since looks are important to me I like some of the automatics. They make me feel like I am getting more for my money, yet you seldom see a picture in a magazine or watch a tv hunting show and see an individual shooting an auto. Are there really any good reasons for this or is it just a trend? I understand that autos can freeze up and can be considered slightly less reliable but how often would that be the case? I would think if anything, more often you would use the fast loading option of an automatic to justify the risk of a jammed action. I currently shoot an auto from the 60’s and I have never had a problem with it jamming.

Would I be making a big mistake if I was to get the auto?

Auto's are heavier.

They cost more.

Casings recoiling into shells waiting in the magazine, can cause severe accuracy problems due to deformed bullets.

Composite stocks are tougher, lighter and less likly to suffer the affects of extreme temperatures or moisture, which affects accuracy.

You really don't have to worry about scratching a composite stock the way you would a pretty wood grain one.

Pretty guns are best left in the safe. or at the range.

And of course like you said they can jam.

There's a good reason why most shows/magazine pictures ect...have bolts in them.......The positives outweigh the negative's.

just my opinion

Get a bolt, get a bolt ,get a bolt.
They are more accurate, Any deficiency in your shooting skills will be greatly magnified by any deficiency in accuracy of your rifle.
the most accurate rifle you can get is needed when hunting in the west where shots over 200 are common.
they come in more calibers and models
they will shoot aimed shots almost as quickly in skilled hands.
they will make you a better shot knowing you can't rip off 2-3 quick ones, you'll make the first one count which is what you're striving for.
Finally, you already know this, there is a reason you see all those bolts
It's only my opinion though

Bolts only for this guy.

If you are limiting your choices to either a bolt or a semi-auto, go with the bolt. Clearly less risk of a jam on follow-up shots when needed. I'd hate to see you get the opportunity to hunt out west and have equipment malfunction. I'm sure TScott is going to post this very item, but I'll beat him to the punch. You might want to consider a single shot T/C G2. It will give you flexibility by being able to swap barrels for different situations. Just a thought.

Well with your criteria I would say go for a bolt. There are some very accurate and reliable semi's out there in the AR platform. Though thinking about it, you might want to take a look at the Browning BAR....



It comes in plenty of good East/West calibers.

I defintley agree with Dale on the T/C though I would recommend the Encore due to more caliber and larger caliber choices. The Encore can handle more pressure then the Contender which allows you to shoot the magnum rounds if you wish for out west, not including the WSM rounds.

For bolts, take a look at the Tikkas. Great rifles, very smooth action, guarnteed accuracy and a good price....



Some semi's are jamamatics, but the better ones are very reliable, though I would limit those (the one's I have shot) to the BAR and the better AR's. The new Benelli looks nice, but I have not shot or seen one yet.

I have been looking at the BAR’s. I have not been looking at the short or long track like what you have in the picture. I am not a fan of the non metal receiver. I like the classic looks. If looks were not a function of my decision I would have already bought one of the Weatherby bolts at Wal-Mart for $350. They are supposed to be really accurate and they are made for durability and accuracy. I know we should support our local store but if you have not looked at Wal-Marts special orders catalog at the store or online, do so. Neither the online or the store book is complete. Online has some newer models that the store book does not and the store book has many guns that are not listed online. I would like to support the local store but when you are talking a difference of $200 on most of the guns I have a hard time supporting them. For instance a Rugar engraved Red Label is $1200 verses the $1500 everywhere else that I have seen it and the version of the BAR that I have been looking at is $771 verses the $950 the local stores want.


Dad has a Browning BAR grade II that he got in the early 60’s and I have always loved that gun and hoped someday I could get a gun that looked as nice. Well here is my chance, and it is quite the decision.

I have looked at the BAR Safari models. The first one that I looked at was really nice, the 7-8 that I have seen since are pieces of junk as far as the checkering goes. To save cost I guess most of the makers are using a rolling press technique to do their checkering and the results look like they did it with a dull wood chipper. They are not clean cut lines and a hairy wood fiber is left behind. Very disappointing, I have also noticed it on many Remington 1187’s. My older 1100 looks great but the 1187 are suffering from the same lack of quality that the BAR Safari’s are. I would rather not have any checkering that the junk that they are passing off currently. If I was to go to a BAR I think I would look at an older used one that is in good shape. I am sure that in 20-30 years browning is going to look back at these current guns and hang their head. They have always demanded a higher cost for their nicer finish, now I can not justify spending the extra money and I plan on letting Browning know.

I have looked at the T/C encore, I think it is close to the G2 that Dale mentioned. I thought it would be a good fit for my girlfriend. She has problems shooting my other guns because they are too large for her. I also figured that it would then be a good gun to teach my future kids with. The down side is that they have a hammer. I know from experience using my muzzleloader that hammers are hard to deal with when you have cold hands. A couple of times I have about had the hammer slip while putting it back on half cock.

I have heard a lot about the tikkas, I have not looked at one yet, I will have to. I have ruled the Remington bolts out because I do not like how the clip goes in. I can imagine that I am going to have problems with or end up bending the coiled spring thing that holds the clip. Seems like a horrible design to me, just my opinion though. Maybe it provides some sort of superior performance for all I know. The only Remington that does not have that is their light gun the Mountain Rifle but it only comes in the satin bluing. I have heard that that finish may reduce glare but rust really easy.

Thanks for everyone’s opinion, I really appreciate it. Due to my experiences this weekend and all of your opinions I will look deeper into the bolts.

Thanks
Gazelle

the last message was me. I did not sign in

Remington makes a non DM (datchable Mag) drop plate in most bolt models..... The BAR your dad has is a belgium made.things have long since changed with the BAR's since they were last made in Bel.... accuracy is not like it once was with them......I am a die hard bolt man for many of the reasons listed already here. If the auto is what you want then get it. When you decide you want a bolt then get one of them too. you cant EVER have to many guns ..... Oh....... in the world of bolt rifles right now out of the box for under a grand the savage is HARD to beat. they are rugged and shoot very good... they look like a utility gun which to me is all a hunting rifle is.... the preety wood and gloss blued fancy checkering etc. stays in my gun cabinet.. my $.02

well I did some quick checking on the T3 and it does not come in a lefty version. I also like the Kimber 8400 and the same thing. Stupid dominant left eye.

gazelle......up until this year i shot a remington model 700 mountain rifle in a 270. It was a very sweet gun but i didnt shoot it very well.....i sold it to a freind and i bought be the Browing BAR safari in 308 cal. I put a Leupold Var x 3 on it. It is a wondeful rifle and has beutiful wood on it. The checkering is some of the best ive seen. i can shoot a 3 shot group at 100 yards you can cover up with a Quarter. I shoot 168 grain winchester ballistic silvertips......i personally would go with the semi-auto but thats my opinion......

Here's an opinion...
I've hunted out west in several different places and seen shot opportunities from 20 to 600 yds. I would say that your shot opportunity will most likely be longer rather than shorter based on experiance and odds. Having said that, the last elk I killed was somewhere around 100 yds - so there's no "standard" distance.
In choosing a gun for out west, here are my standards - accuracy, weight, and reliability. All just as important. My experience with guns in general is that any can be a lemon with the wrong load, a barrel that is not free-floating, poor scope or mounts, the list goes on. However, my humble opinion is a bolt will give you the best of my three criteria. Auto's are heavier, and the chance of jamming is much higher than a bolt. (They may NEVER jam, but the chance is much higher.) I also don't think you will get the same accuracy from an auto that you will from a bolt that has been fne-tuned wit a custom load for it. (That part takes some time at the bench and range.)
I saw in one of your posts about ugly checkering or something to that effect. I'll say this about "nice" guns - leave them at home. Get a composite stock on this rifle. I took a new Mod 70 stainless composite to Alaska several years back on a brown bear hunt. New when it left, looked like it had been thru a war when it came home. Not saying I didn't take care of it, just EXTREME hunting conditions, alders dragging the stock, wet, etc. You don't want to be worrying about dinging up your gun when chasing after a departing herd of elk.
Composite stock, bolt action - wouldn't have anything but with me.
Also, get a broken case extractor for that caliber and keep it with you on the hunt. $20.00 and fits in your pocket that may save a hunt if you were to break a case in the action.
Better to have and not need than need and not have...

One more humble opinion.
Hard to beat a 284 Win. I know others will disagree or have other opinions...but a 284 will give you very close to the balistics of a 7mm Mag. in a short action case. Short action will save you weight in your rifle. Still a 7mm bullet, so lots of bullet choices.
So to end my stump session....bolt action, composite, 284 Win, with a Leopold compact 3-9x scope, as light as possible.

one more thing about the weatherby bolts from walmart! if this topic is still active!! i received my weatherby for a graduation present a few years back put a leupold scope on it.. and "knock on wood" i havnt missed yet!!. with the exception of stupid shots as i call them, ones i know i shouldnt have taken.. but that has been very very few of those.. but i shoot a 300 wthby rifle, it is a bolt action, and extremely extremely deadly!! i recommend it all the way!!. and you cant beat the walmart prices!!..