Again, Hendup, how do you keep them off your property? Unfortunately, the only way to do that is to not run dogs..... Is that fair? Please don't take this wrong Hendup but isn't that what you and all the other folk who don't like dog hunting really want? Brother, if they stopped dog hunting tommorrow in VA I would still deer hunt but I'm tellin' you there are a whole lot of guys who wouldn't. And again is that truly what is best for the sport of deer hunting To alienate a whole segment of our hunters in VA? you CAN'T keep the dogs off your land Hendup without a fence. End of story. I can't run deer with dogs on a leash. I wish I could keep them confined but its not going to happen. Call it tresspassing if you like but it's impossible for someone (coon hunters,bear hunters and deer hunters alike) to stop a dog at the line. And before someone brings up Iowa or Ohio or some other state I don't care what they do. I live inVA! As I stated earlier, There's 6 weeks of still hunting available to anyone in VA who want's to do that. Maybe we should take bow season into Sept. a week, bring muzzle loading season in for 2 weeks like it is now and what would normally be the second week of muzzle loader let that be a still hunt only gun season. Then you could still hunt for 7 weeks and dog hunt for 7 weeks? I don't know. And as far as the jerks that give dog hunters a bad name. People who say all dog hunting should go because of them, need to listen to what they're promoting. I know another group that says all guns are bad because the criminals have guns. Does that mean I, a law abiding citizen, shouldn't be able to own a gun? I think not. Be careful Guys, when you start taking the rights away from one group of people you could be next! All I know is this debate is not going to go away. And if there isn't a serious objective discussion about it soon I still stand by my statement that our hunting heritage is going to suffer. And I agree 100% with you about the civil discussion and the quality of people on this board. Thanks again for letting me blab.

The last two, statements are why I hang out at Vaturkey. I love all hunting...every season, I understand both side. We as the target need to be one when it comes to these topics. So pull the string , load the cap, release the hounds. Be safe and respect one another.


I feel like singing "we are the world" haha


Tim

Agree, that this is by far the most civil board around and we share a lot of beliefs and certainly have a some pointed discussions with varying viewpoints from time to time. Long as we don't start talking about someone's mamma and making this personal, its all good.

I don't want Deer Dogging to go away.. but I do think it should come in after two weeks of Rifle just like Bear Dogging does .. this would allow the Rut to be over for the most part and satisfy most Still hunters .. you would still get what 4 to 5 weeks of Deer Dogging in? That is plenty in my opinion.. They should adopt what Madison and Greene counties did for all Deer Dogging areas..

Also after reading the below regs from the VDGIF site I have a question.. is it legal to Hunt Deer with Dogs in Prince William or Fauquier County? I didn't think it was, but I don't see them listed as an exception and it is East of the Blue Ridge... HMMM????

Dogs May Be Used For Deer Hunting Except:
•West of the Blue Ridge.
•East of the Blue Ridge in Bedford, Fairfax, Franklin, Henry, Loudoun, Northampton, and Patrick counties, and Amherst (west of Rt. 29), Campbell (west of Norfolk Southern Railroad), Nelson (west of Rt. 151), Pittsylvania (west of Norfolk Southern Railroad), and the city of Lynchburg.
•When hunting during archery and muzzleloading seasons and on the Youth Deer Hunting Day.
•On many military areas. Check individual Post regulations.
•On Amelia, Cavalier, Featherfin, Mattaponi, Merrimac Farms, Pettigrew, Chester F. Phelps, and G. Richard Thompson Wildlife Management Areas.
•During the first 12 hunting days of the firearms deer season in Madison and Greene counties.

It's deer dog hunters like you that see your dog is going to cross a property boundrey and let him go and make the comment he can't read. whatever area you hunt with a club or without, you see that the dogs are going to cross another property line should have your butts there to catch em and not let them run through an owners property without asking permission first. This is what causes the problems idoits like you that has the attitude to let em run I'll catch em later and shoot whatever they bring out on a dirt road or on someone elses property. That is trespassing with a capital T and the right to retrieve doesn't cover that stupidity. You going to hunt dogs, hunt them ethically or get out of the business before your actions ends my tradition of hunting with hounds ethically and legally.

First of all Hokieman, Hello to you to. I am not an idiot or stupid. I don't have an attitude of "Let them run, they can't read". If my dogs cross a property line I do TRY to catch them, I NEVER said to NOT try to catch them. If it's on a road and we are there when the dogs cross of course we try to catch them. But what about the 4,5, 6 or however many guys or up a creek line a LONG ways from a dog box? If 6 hounds run a deer by one of them he MIGHT be able to catch one MAYBE two of them. (And yes I always have a leash with me.) What about the other 4 or 5 dogs that get by? They are GONE! (unless he kills the deer) Across the line of standers. Next stop... the property line. Not all property bounderies are on a road or even accessible Hokieman. My point is there are many times that the dogs can't be stopped. Period. If you can stop your dogs 100% of the time, that's awesome Hokieman but where I hunt there are places where you can't get to them before they do. And if you can get to them, Sometimes you just can't catch the dog. He or she is not ready to stop. I can't tell you how many times I've had to tackle a dog that was crossing out of a hunt to try and catch it. And when I did catch that one there goes the rest of them! Still running. If you can pull your dogs off a hot track, well, again Hokieman, more power to you. And let me also say, I NEVER SAID IT WAS OKAY TO SHOOT A DEER CROSSING A ROAD COMING OUT OF SOMEONE ELSES PROPERTY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! When did I say that? I didn't. If someone does that then they are WRONG. Period. So let me repeat myself, if there isn't a SERIOUS, OBJECTIVE, NON NAME CALLING, discussion had on this issue by the powers that be real soon my and YOUR hunting heritage is in big trouble Hokieman. Thanks again for calling me an Idiot and Stupid. You have a Merry Christmas. And to the rest of you thanks againg for having a civil discussion about this issue, but I'm done with it. It's started to degrade already and I've said all I'm going to say on a talk forum behind my key board. Freddy thanks for not locking this thread....yet Merry Christmas to everybody else too!!

Interesting take from a few folks and this can quickly get emotional as folks strongly defend their viewpoints. I think it falls into different strokes for different folks and a lot of how you personally feel on this topic is related to how (and where) you acquired your hunting roots. I believe the use of hounds to run deer in the Southeast dates back before the turn of the century and was about the only way folks in that era could reliably harvest deer given the environment of the day (swamps, thick brush, etc.) coupled with the short range weapons of the day (shotguns with buckshot or slugs). Having venison on the table wasn't a luxury, it was a necessity. People killed to eat and venison (along with lots of other game) was a stable for the table. There were large tracts of land owned by very few and probably those few were also hunters and had their own deer dogs, farm dogs, bird dogs etc. Venison was collectively shared and most folks who participated in the hunts took meat home. Things have certainly changed now.

Folks who didn't know of the history and tradition of running deer with dogs see a barbaric event with Bambi being run into the ground. Landowners property disrespected etc. etc. Most of the Folks who don't know the history of running dogs with deer and just as importantly don't care. They, for the most part are late arrivals to the area (damn Northerner's) who move onto a smaller track of land and promptly post the heck out of it and want to put up their stands and have a their own little piece of deer hunting Nirvana. What they can't and won't tolerate is a pack of deer hounds running through their piece of woods, when they have been patterning deer, growing footplots, hanging stands etc all in preparation for deer season. Thus conflicts begin and temper's flare and battle lines are drawn.

I don't have a solution to the above because their probably isn't any solution which will fully satisfy every camp. Modern realities are running full scale into traditions and whenever that happens tempers flare. I do believe that in almost every case the landowner will win because he/she has the law on their side.

Now, the above being said, why don't we bring up the subject of baiting for deer. That should illicit a full discussion that will no doubt remain civil.

Why can't you catch the 4,5,6 dogs on a hot track? are you a one man team? do you hunt with a group or without one? You are responsable for your dogs and if you hunt to many that you yourself can't handle then cut em back to a number you can handle. I don't want to step on your toes but this renegade crap has to stop and be culled. If you don't want to follow a few simple solutions why would anyone else. it has to start with someone or your tradition won't be around for the next generation. bad habits are hard to break but everyone needs to try harder to break em.

Okay, I know I said I was done but just one more time. No Hokieman I am not a one man team but I am also NOT truck hunting. Are You? You must be if everyone is where they can put the dogs in their truck!! Everyone in my club is on a stand. One man turns loose, everyone else is ON A STAND! If a man is on a stand on a logging road close to his truck then he attempts to catch the dogs if he doesn't shoot the deer. Some guys aren't close to their truck Hokieman. What part of that don't you understand? (Again, are you truck hunting?) If the dogs get through then those who are close to a truck try to get around them to attempt to catch them. But that is not always possible because as stated earlier the boundary that the dogs are crossing is not always accessible, and not everyone can get to their truck in time. As for the comment of using a smaller number of dogs. When I run dogs I want to hear a pack. Right or wrong I want to hear the different voices blended together. Sorry but that's how I feel. If you can pull your dogs off of a hot track then they must suck pretty bad. I wouldn't own a dog that I could stop on a hot track without tackling him. I never once in this discussion advocated turning a pack of dogs loose to try and run deer out of an adjoining landowners land. That is un ethical and I do not do that. I AM NOT A RENEGADE AND DO NOT CALL ME THAT AGAIN. There ya' go Hokieman it's finally degraded to the point I guess you were trying to get it to. And just to let you know, Hokieman I gave away my hounds around 4 years ago after many years of enjoying hearing them run. That's right, I don't even own deer hounds anymore but I do hunt in a club that runs dogs and a lot of my friends still own them.(Some of my old hounds and plenty of my blood lines) But I see the writing on the wall. This is the USA and what make's one man's wishes any higher than another? Everyone in this issue has rights guys. but Like Tut said the landowners have the power(tax money!!) and running hounds (coon,fox bear too!) WILL be gone one day. Yes the "bad hound hunters" are crap and they have brought down our sport. But you can thank yourself and alot of other people's inablilty to have rational discussions about this issue for it's demise also,Hokieman. Yes I'm done with this thread for good. I will not respond to you again. Lock it if you want Freddy because obviously some people are just the way they are and can't discuss something without resorting to name calling and finger pointing. I'm going back to being one of those guys that just "checks in" from time to time. I'm out! And one more thing...Go Wolverines!!

So much for being civil, Hokie…really, you believe all you are saying. Dude, knock the chip off your shoulder and try understanding what’s being said here.You, me and nobody else is going to catch a load of Walkers at full stride when they are on the chase. You make it sound like we can get in our trucks , speed down the road/in the wood , get out and say” come here boy, come on, come on “ and these dogs are going to stop , turn and come to us tails a waging. Come on man. “OldForester” very respectful on how you handle someone calling you names like that. You are a better man than me.
As far as our tradition, you better hope it don’t go away, because your will be next.

Thats what got this whole hound study started in the first place was the deer hound hunters running out of season and on others property without respect for the landowner. I fought for your rights then and I am a coon hunter but I don't know if I will fight for them again because of arrogence some of the deer hound hunters have toward everyone. I am on the board of Virginia Hunting Dog Alliance and any time you want to question my ethics just write them. I spent many long hours and nights in the wee hours of the morning fighting for deer hound hunters rights because bear, coon, rabbit and turkey, hound hunters were tied in with the hound study. If you all go back to the same way you hunted before and cause another study or whatever I will fight to have the deer hound hunters singled out from the others and you can take your chances. enough of this crap you can't catch your dogs. It's because your hunting on smaller tracts that ajoins landowners who don't want deer hound hunting and you have no permission to run on their land but you use the excuse of the right to retrieve to go after them and or continue the hunt. be an ethical hunter in a group and be responsable for your dogs.

Easy gents....starting to get carried away. I think this is one of those topics that are so polarizing that there will never be a solution. As it is now, as long as its legal you gotta let it happen. It's civil discussions that help each side understand the others point of view and maybe with time and understanding you have compromise. I'm against it....but thats just my opinion. I just hope that by explaining why I'm against it dog hunters may see my point of view and try and understand how certain things related with dog hunting have the possibility of infringing on my hunt. I don't think it should be banned, but unless the dog alliance starts seeing other peoples point of view on the matter (including non hunting land owners) instead of going to the immediate knee jerk reaction and going on the defensive that dog hunting will run itself out of it's place in Virginia hunting. And when I say that, I'm not talking about anyone on this board, but people I come in contact with in my area. You need to keep in mind the landowners that don't hunt whose land you may be infringing on because they are very quick to make a call to the game department. The last thing any of us needs is to get non hunters complaining about us as a group. And on a side note....lets ease up on the hostility and name calling, unless one of you wants to call me a good lookin son of a gun. Then I'm cool with it.

I'm a SW Virginian, so dog hunting for deer is not permitted here. Back in college, was fortunate enough to experience a dog hunt down east. Have to say it was a lot of fun even though I never fired a shot. I'm not a land owner, well, not enough land to hunt on anyway. I've watched this debate grow over the last two decades. I have to say, if I spent my hard earned money on hunting land, my sweat and blood developing that land for the benefit of the game, I would not take too kindly to someone's dogs consistently blowing out my property. I recognize that on occassion, a pack of dogs may stray from their intending hunting destination. Grew up hunting rabbits behind beagles, so I do have some experience there. But in all the years that we rabbit hunted, we didn't do so while deer season was in out of respect for the deer hunters. With the dwindling hunting land and the tightening of permission from land owners over the last 20 years, it has becoem ever increasingly difficult to establish and retain quality hunting land. This I believe more than anything has led to the great dog debate escalation. Their is no simple solution, but there must be more respect from both sides in order for one to be established. There's this entitlement theory that both sides have established (landowner entitled to manage the game on their land uninterrupted by dogs if they choose versus the long held tradition of a dog hunt). Folks are digging their heels in for a deep seated battle. Nothing positive will come of this. In fact, if their were fewer deer and less need to manage them like say 20 years ago, it might spell the end to deer hunting all together (the battle that is). So, from the opinions of one humble mountain deer hunter, I recommend that the two sides stay engaged in proactive discussion on the topic and a commitment to be respectful to the other side. Courtesy is a dying art that deserves to be ressurected. Off the soapbox now and out the door to see if I can enjoy the sound of whistling wings this morning....

Merry Christmas to all. All of you are great guys. Hokie,keep fighting for our rights,Ido beieve you have our backs,just be kinder with your words. We all need to respect each others right,get alobg and band together. Just
thoughts.

Hokieman, since Old Forester has been the bigger man and decided to remove himself from the discussion I will step up. You talk like you know every move he has ever made hunt, he is a renegade, and you are the poster of perfection. It says you live in Giles which puts you a long way from deer-dogging country. You shouldn't make accusations without knowing source information because it just makes you come across as ignorant (fyi: ignorant doesn't mean stupid, it means lacking knowledge). What we as hunters with differences of opinion need is a civil exchange of knowledge. There will always be differences among hunters, but we must stand for one another to protect all our rights so the "fine" folks in Washington won't begin to chip away at all we enjoy. Give them an inch and they will take a mile. Let's keep the discussion civil and professional. No one will respect your posts when all you do is name call and accuse.