We were at the nwtf show and went to basspro and got some L/B #6's 3" and as a hand loader i just had to cut the top off for the lead load hunters, this just may be the best lead ammo out.

well its like a copper slug with all that stuff though the shot and its not just around the shot and hope it dont crack them tight IC chokes.

we will be shooting it after all the snow is gone.

if any of yall have shot it post your testing up on here

36. on powder

3" 12ga. 1200 : 1 3/4 : #6

It does look like a slug. Looks like the ol' wax slug....

http://youtu.be/cRCQQ9r_l_4

Here is a video review of the ammo... http://youtu.be/w2gC-Qumb2s

Bought some 6's and some 5's. Waiting for the snow to melt to see how they do. Really hoping the 5's give a good pattern as I've always liked size 5 in lead.

Bought and shot some through my 2 over/under, Browning Citori Field and Remington Model 300 Ideal. Both guns have x-full and Imp Mod. Compared it to the Fed flight control and Hevi shot, all shells were 3" with 6 shot.

Sorry whish I had kept targets.

One thing I did was question Winchester on what happens in colder weather since I do a lot of fall turkey in single digit to freezing weather with the substance that contains the shot. They have still not given me an answer.

First I am not a pellet counter (in a circle) with the exception of I must have at least 7 pellets in the brain and vertebra not just touching it but inside. I look for overall uniformity of the pattern. I shot 40x40" butcher paper with a turkey head neck in the center of it.

20 yards and in to me there was not much difference. Getting out to 30 the LB ammo one could see the difference in more pellets in the head and neck with an even pattern (tighter)with both chokes. 40 yards the LB out preformed the other 2 with an additional 9-12 more pellets in the head neck with only the x-full choke.

I would be using it this year but in another post I stated am going back to the Side by sides shooting Full/Mod chokes with the Premium Pheasant 2 3/4" 6 shot low pressure low recoil loads from RST. Not lead shot but what they call magnum shot. Got a couple friend using those the last couple years with great results.

I think you guys may really like this LB ammo and am sure especially you Striker will have a very detailed result of it. Will be looking forward to your results.

By the way I may offend some but did blast Winchester with an e-mail on promoting 60+ yard shots. Maybe that is why they have not got back to me on cold weather effect on the shell.


Earl

I have not shot it .. but I have to say that promoting Lead Ammo to shoot 60 Plus yds is just plain stupid .. it just will not keep the velocity it needs to consistantly penetrate and kill at that range, and the geniuses at Winchester should know this.. I am sure that it is a great load and may well be the best Lead load out now, but don't tell me that it will extend range to 60 plus yds.. that is just irresponsible of them.. because there will be plenty of Novices that will run out and buy it (which is I'm sure why they did it) and then proceed to injure a bunch of Turkey's this spring .. It may keep the pattern and put a lot of shot on paper at that range, but putting shot on paper and keeping enough velocity to kill cleanly at that range are two different things ..

Striker I know that you are a responsible tester and shooter and would never shoot a Turkey at that range despite loading your own TSS that will kill that far.. so I hope that you do a penetration test for us at 60 yds with the LBs and tell me I am not crazy.. or prove me wrong and I will digress..

[quote="WVBOY"]I have not shot it .. but I have to say that promoting Lead Ammo to shoot 60 Plus yds is just plain stupid .. it just will not keep the velocity it needs to consistantly penetrate and kill at that range, and the geniuses at Winchester should know this.. I am sure that it is a great load and may well be the best Lead load out now, but don't tell me that it will extend range to 60 plus yds.. that is just irresponsible of them.. because there will be plenty of Novices that will run out and buy it (which is I'm sure why they did it) and then proceed to injure a bunch of Turkey's this spring .. It may keep the pattern and put a lot of shot on paper at that range, but putting shot on paper and keeping enough velocity to kill cleanly at that range are two different things ..

Striker I know that you are a responsible tester and shooter and would never shoot a Turkey at that range despite loading your own TSS that will kill that far.. so I hope that you do a penetration test for us at 60 yds with the LBs and tell me I am not crazy.. or prove me wrong and I will digress..[/quote


Yelp WVBOY, just do not write Winchester about it or they will not return your e-mails also.

Yes, Stricker however you do your penetration tests let us know, I forgot to ask that. The way I did mine was when I was raising the bronze/domestic bird here and killed a few over the years with various shot (mainly lead and copper plated). But then again only out to 40 yards. I never believed in the plywood/tin tests. And of course using the old doubles over the years 40 yards was stretching it.


Earl

i will be shooting @ 30, 40, for the hunters, @ 1200 fps it will get the job done. no need for a 40yd penetration test but yes a penetration test will be at 50-60 yds with the LBs #6's . Well lead is lead and i would not shoot a bird past 50, its just not going to get the job done and the velocity will run out. it may put 10% more of the shot on paper in a 10" at 50-60yds at that range, but putting more shot on paper and keeping enough velocity to kill cleanly at that range with lead are two different things and the velocity is what kills.

after i test the L/B id still keep all kill shots under say 45yds.

thanks for your kind words and will keep ya'll posted

brian

Brian,

Sounds good. You say velocity is what kills. But is it not Ft. lbs of energy at certain distances and velocity that penetrates and kills? Or is it one of the same. Sorry for maybe a stupid sounding question. I was never much into the ballistics of shells and shotguns like a lot are today. Since I basically have used lead for turkeys for 50+ years we only tested for pattern and have kept all shots 40 and in, mainly 30 and in. The only thing was in the days ft lb energy of 2.5 was needed to break and penetrate turkey bone and skull and most lead shot was rated at or near 2.5 for 6 shot at 40 yards.

How does one determine all of that and do you have the equipment to test velocity and figure out ft lb energy?

Also, since I shot the older doubles shell pressures today of 9,500 to 11,500 are a no no. Prior to this I had a gentleman that loaded shells for me at around 8,000 1200 vel. in lead 6 shot but has passed away. So since finding an alternate the RST shell seems to be about what I need with 7,900 vel. at 1200.
The Hevi classic double at 8,900 with 1150 vel. just does not hold a good pattern.
Anyway any suggestions of any other low pressure low recoil for the old doubles would be appreciated.


Earl

Earl, I'm another one of those guys who certainly has some high tech cammoed up turkey gun who likes to carry an old sxs from time to time. About ten years ago I found a 12 gauge Parker on a number 2 frame with 30" barrels with full/full chokes. Gun weighed 8 lbs. Send it to a well known gunsmith in Ga who lengthed the chambers to 2 3/4" and extended the forcing cones. The original wood was in bad shape so he redid that and glass bedded it in the rear area. When all was said and done I had a great turkey slayer. I asked him what I could shoot out of it and he said on a non regular diet 2 3/4" 1 1/2 Oz Winchester factory loads would be fine. That was actually what he proofed the gun with (actually sent me the spend empties).

At that time Winchester Xtended has come out and originally they said they were safe to shoot in any shoot gun. Turned that Parker into easy 40 yard gun. Killed a couple of birds with it (none at 40 yards, all closer) and then decided one day I was tired of lugging a 8 lb plus gun in the turkey woods and that 30" barrel just was a pain. And then Winchester said they didn't recommend shooting those shells in older guns.

So I sold it at a small profit and moved on. Now that bug has me again and I'm currently on the search for something along along the lines of a Fox Sterlingworth 12 gauge. One of the later ones made after they switched to all 2 3/4" chambered barrels. So I'm on the lookout for a 26" Sterlingworth chokes full/full. Hopefully I'll find a beater at a pawn shop some day. BTW, I've got lots of old lead paper shells. Probably a 30 yard gun, but it would be fun.

fps/velocity moves more energy to the shot, higher the fps/velocity more energy down range for a better kill past 40 and hevi 13 is about 12.5 and has 10% more energy then lead and lead bing about 11., not going to get into the TSS now. i have a way to test loads to see what they are doing from any ammo but a good kill load needs to be @ 1100+ fps/velocity to make a good kill. all of my hand loads are from 1150-1180 and psi is now under 12,000. the new guns from about 1970 and up are tested up to about 23000 psi. i dont know about the older guns.

brian

TUT,

Brian I am not trying to high jacking the tread from you so bear with this old man if you please. I and know TUT now would like to get your feed back on the LB ammo and if you could expand maybe in another thread on pressures, ft lb energy and shell pressures for old doubles.

I got my grandfathers gun an Ithaca 12 ga. 1936 NID 30", F/M, 2 3/4", a Savage Fox Sterlingsworth 30", F/M, 2 3/4" and a Lefever Nitro Special by Ithaca 30", F/F, 2 3/4 that have head busted many turkey heads here and other States over the years. But with lack of not reloading and access to a good low pressure, low recoil loads I purchased 2 modern over unders and a Dickenson side by side using them the last few years with modern ammo. But this RST looks like the ticket to bring back out the old doubles.

Brian I know you are really into the reloading end and will take your advice so far as loads, performance, penetration, pressures are concerned. Thanks.


Earl

Thanks Brian, so would you think the RST @ 1200 vel. with 7,900 lbs. pressure which I believe a lot of older ammo prior to 1960 (not sure were loaded at) would be plenty for turkey today, not that the turkeys have changed but ammo and all sure have.

The shot RST uses is called Magnum shot ever heard of it? supposed to be denser and heavier then regular lead.

I believe the older guns were tested around 14-15,000. But the problem with the new loads at or above 9,500 is on a well maintained older double with good barrel wall thickness is not so much the barrels blowing up as the wood is old and dried out and then cracking and splitting. I have had one that happened happened too just using a regular modern pheasant load but was 10,800 lbs. pressure.

Earl

yes it will do the job under 35 yds

if it was me i would not shoot any hw loads or h13 and not tss in any gun under 1970.