https://www.fieldandstream.com/conservation/declining-turkey-populations

Interesting that none of the biologist or the author mention the word "predation" , or the related word "predators"?


Probably to mentioned because many of the turkey predators are protected species and either perch , glide or soar over the poults or adults daily for their whole lives.

The one which are not protected are the ground crowd that work on the turkey nests and eggs daily. Bobcats on nesting hens and young poults. Snakes on the eggs, Coons on the eggs. Coyotes too. You name it.

Here are some facts, not theories:but fact: biologist in Georgia were doing telemetry studies with chipped adult birds on a large piece of property that adjoined a place I spring hunted for 20 years. They knew where a couple dozen adult turkey were every day year round and could observe their behaviors.. when the hens nested they put cameras near the nests. Their recorded observations proved the odds of producing a first nest by a hen were extremely low. I will try to recall the order of examples: bobcats killed perhaps 20 % of the hens on the nest. Hawks killed hens on the nest. Snakes and coons were the huge egg predators.

In 14 observed hen nest one year not one hen produced a live chick to hatch. You might want to reread that.

The vast majority of the hens attempted a renest a second time . Of this renest , again, not one hen produced a live chick to an age past week, most eggs were predated before any hatch.

Turkeys will attempt to renest a third time if no chick was born alive in a prior nest that year. So 4-5 of the the third-timers renested . Of that third nesting group only one nest produced live chicks that survived as poults.

Why? Predation. I observed this testing and had several field conversations with the biologists, as well as follow ou calls for the several years they did the study. Raising a nest of poults in predator rich environments is a low percentage endeavor in the wild turkey world.

Yep, the old trapper days are gone. But what can be done. I and others have not clue.

It is a sad state, but as I tell others when I started turkey hunting in 1958 we had few turkeys far and few between. Even today with the decline I am still optimistic and hopeful, but things may not turn around but at least stabilize.


Earl

Something is going on for sure IMO. Oklahoma cut back their tags this year because of declining populations Ditto for Kansas. For more then a few years I hunted in Nebraska. Well that population has crashed in the past 4 years. I talked to a friend who hunts an area in the Southwest part of that state on private land (few thousand acres) and the rancher who allows him to hunt, said that Turkey numbers have dropped like a stone. Well, this is private land an not overhunted. Predators are everywhere out there, but there has always been a ton of Yotes and Hawks and everything else. Habitat hasn't really changed in that time. Lots of brush, lots of roost trees and lots of land being planted in crops. When I hunted one area several years ago for pheasants we got up one morning and were running the dogs and heard gobbling in the distance. Now, this was in early December. We got out binoculars and literally there were hundreds of turkey's in that flock. Well, flashing forward, and those birds just aren't there.

PS. I was eating fried chicken a a local spot 3 years ago and talked to 3 ranchers and when asked about turkey's, they all said numbers were big time down.

Double PS. I talked to one friend in the Midwest just last week about this and he said it wasn't just Turkey's but pheasants as well. He said last year he killed 38 pheasants during hunting season over his pointing dogs and this year he had killed 4. Has good dogs and hunting private land. Birds just aren't there. Some of it may be weather related I guess, but Turkey's are a pretty tough, as are pheasants for that matter.

A lot of biologists and others have been saying for years the bags of corn that folks put out to feed the wildlife (which has been proven not to work as a supplement)
and bait in states that allow it are killing the turkeys and other birds. The aflatoxins (mold) in the bagged corn was the problem. In fact the NWTF and a couple biologists from a southern state went out and sampled corn from peoples feeders and on the ground and the levels of aflatoxin through the roof. It is coming from sporting and big box stores that sell the 50 and 100 lb bags of corn. It is still not recommended but they say if folks would by the corn from certified USDA grain mills the effect would be drastically reduced. Another biologist studying this is finding the same with the bagged corn, although he is saying it may not kill all of them he believes it is drastically effecting reproduction.

Another study biologists and I believe the NWTF is involved with it is the seed that farmers are using for the last 20 some years are that the seeds are treated with insecticides called neonictinoids. The jury is still out on the full effects on this but they are having concerns where they are at so far.

In fact a friend told told me in a midwest state where a couple of his friends turkey hunt the county they hunt the turkeys have completely vanished, is was a farmland I believe in Illinois (not for sure). In fact he said it affected 2 counties.

But if one thinks back when the turkey population started to decline and all these pesticides were being used to produce more and better food crops, well.
Although the bag corn and seed may be a part of the problem there is a lot more going on.

Can't wait for the pushback on this. LOL


Earl


Earl

If the land owners where you hunt will allow it, i'd suggest buying a dozen dog proof traps to try and cut back on raccoons and possums. The furs are currently not worth skinning but taking a few of those egg eaters off of the local landscape can only help, especially right now prior to nesting season. Most states trapping regs allow for raccoon and possum trapping through February and into March. Be sure to check as it is regulated. Duke makes about the cheapest but they do work. Set near water, in trails, near your feeders or where you see tracks or scat. Those traps will also take skunks. Cheap dried cat food with a little liquid smoke is about the cheapest and best bait i have found.

https://www.flemingtraps.com/duke-dog-p ... -trap.html

I caught 8 raccoon last year with dog proofs. I used dog food too, but also put fish oil on the tree I anchored the trap too. This year I put 3 dirt hole sets out. Caught 5 coon, 2 fox, and 1 opossum. caught them around the area i see most Turkey. I don't do anything but chuck the coon etc over the hill as it were. I'm doing it for the Turkey. Hopefully it helps.

I hadn't thought about the bait screwing the Turkey up. Another thing to think about is all this corn is GMO. Much of Europe has banned GMO crops because you don't know what the artificial product will do to the human body. If it can mess up us it can mess up Turkey too. The GMO corn is RoundUp ready and probably insect resistant. I'd think it possible that makes the corn damaging to all biological critters, to include us. Maybe I need to back off giving my wife grief over organic products.

If you add aflatoxin to that equation, could be a major part of the equation.

Great discussion.
V

Was there data indicating how many eggs didn't hatch due to not being fertilized? I've read studies that showed that killing the main, dominant breeding gobbler rests the whole breeding arrangement and can have an effect on nesting and fertilized eggs. I'm not dismissive on the role predators play on turkey populations but I think predators play a necessary role in the big picture of stable, healthy turkey populations. I shoot predators given the chance, but I don't go out of my way to remove them.

I can say with a high degree of certainty that GMO corn is not an issue. I do think if folks put out old corn that aflatoxin could certainly be an issue where it's used.

[quote="Tidewater Tom"][quote="Gobblenow"]
In 14 observed hen nest one year not one hen produced a live chick to hatch. You might want to reread that.

The vast majority of the hens attempted a renest a second time . Of this renest , again, not one hen produced a live chick to an age past week, most eggs were predated before any hatch.

Turkeys will attempt to renest a third time if no chick was born alive in a prior nest that year. So 4-5 of the the third-timers renested . Of that third nesting group only one nest produced live chicks that survived as poults.

Why? Predation. I observed this testing and had several field conversations with the biologists, as well as follow ou calls for the several years they did the study. Raising a nest of poults in predator rich environments is a low percentage endeavor in the wild turkey world.[/quote]

Was there data indicating how many eggs didn't hatch due to not being fertilized? I've read studies that showed that killing the main, dominant breeding gobbler rests the whole breeding arrangement and can have an effect on nesting and fertilized eggs. I'm not dismissive on the role predators play on turkey populations but I think predators play a necessary role in the big picture of stable, healthy turkey populations. I shoot predators given the chance, but I don't go out of my way to remove them.[/quote]


The study on nest predation as described above that I am most familiar with had radio collared or chipped hens. The hens were followed /tracked daily from afar in the patterns of travel or nesting, nests were indentified and observed sometime with camera.. As i said above Generally the nests were destroyed by predators or the hen was killed by
predators before eggs hatched. Surviving hens which had a nest destroyed generally renested, and predation cycle repeated. Some tried a third time facing same obstacles. My understanding is that not many eggs survived in a lost hen nest for them to test. But can't say that with certainty. Ask Dr Chamberlain maybe .

my pap had corn out on our farm over the winter that was the only way we could keep the birds on our farm,but last year must have been a good year for our area because we had over 50 birds in one Flock

Wild Bill

Many countries have banned GMO veggies. If it is so benign, why have these countries banned it. I understand GMO, but wonder how well it is invested. We are currently still coming out of a potentially man made pandemic. So I don't find our love of genetic alterations a good thing.
Predators are still a big issue, that's why I am taking them out. I think predators were better maintained when fur had value. Since the fur market is trash no incentive for people to trap and keep predator numbers in check.
V

A buddy of mine who's a biologist & manages very large ranches in TX & OK says the same thing. He started a feed company that sells peas instead due to the corn aflatoxins.