https://www.dgif.virginia.gov/wildlife/turkey/springharvestsummary/

2nd highest ever was expected with increased participation.

Abysmal totals from the NF will continue until active management returns.

I agree on both counts. Management is key. I think DNR could have a small army of volunteers if they played it right. I'd donate time to improve habitat. I'd also give up a spring gobbler a year if it'd help the population. Shorter season may help too.
V

Thanks for posting BD. I am shocked at being the 2nd highest harvest.

I laughed when they said, fair weather conditions helped the kill. I don't know where they were in VA but here I was hunting in wool (even on May 7th), wind (dang east wind) and rain.

I believe the amount of hunters and open areas filled and pounded everyday on base this year contributed to a below average kill. The birds now on base are being seen once again and gobbling.


Earl

Federal management on national forest land. Dgif has no say but should be pushing the usfs for wildlife.

Spring hunting is no factor as it stands in va to pop dynamics. I saw Plenty of jakes this year which means plenty jennys too.

For any of you Va hunters still with us after the season--do you think Va turkey population is stable or growing or declining at this time, based on last three seasons.?

I read what Gary Norman said, "record levels" etc.

Im not sure how any state has any true test of overall turkey population--they know how many were checked in dead...after that Im not sure.

Record high levels is not what I was hearing from a lot of Va folks this past two seasons. Not trying to argue anything out of your answers , Im just wonder what you think about the state population.

GN, can’t speak for the whole state but here last July was one of the better hen poult ratio since 2012. There were a lot of turkeys out there prior to this spring season. The gobbling survey just prior to the season was one of the lowest in 5 years. But weather was not very conducive. Also 2 years ago was a poor hatch which maybe contributed for a low gobbling count and even all season. Out of the birds killed this spring only 9 were 2 year olds and and 27 3 plus. 8 Jakes.

Here I would say the population grew some from 2012-21014 then stabilized over the last 5 years. We had record kills 2015-2019 above our average since 1968 which is 46.

Those 5 years were well above the average, 58, 72, 76, 99 and 100.

But again I would say the population is stable over the last 5.


Earl

In the area that I hunt (central VA) based on spring hunting, summer observations, and running bird dogs in the fall and winter I would say that the population is declining.

This season was different bc of quarantine.... more people off work= more in woods. I made a proclamation the first week of season that it would be a record harvest. Simple math! Has nada to do with increasing turkey population.
Population/ numbers are declining in the areas I hunt. Very few broods hatched in 18 and 19. I mean very few.

So after listening to that Meat Eater Podcast with Mike Chamberlain .. he basically debunks what I and most other hunters have believed to be true.. that any bird with less than an inch spur and not sharp is a two year old and anything over an inch and sharp is 3 or more.. but he says that isn't true at all.. radioed GPS toms killed and turned in that they know for certain the age of.. had anywhere from 1.5 inch sharp spurs on a two year old to 3/4 inch dull spurs on a 5 year old..

So Earl.. I'm not sure Quantico can definitively say a gobbler is two or 3 plus unless they have been trapped and banded or GPS'd and you know for certain the age if you believe Mr. Chamberlain. The only thing for certain according to him.. is a Jake vs an Adult.. beyond that you can't age them..

I believe it's declining.. I used to hunt a lot less days in the spring and tagged out quite a few years.. now I hunt more and don't tag out near as often.. Could be I"m just not as good of a hunter as I used to be though ..

Difficult year to read this year. We declined after boom of last cicada hatch for sure but thats probably normal. Then stabilized last couple years. I think my area increased this year based on jake counts and flock sightings. Our weather except for opening weekend was cold wind and rain and after mild winter and acorn crop very spotty it seemed birds were concentrated in some areas and non existent in others. Some did very well and some very experienced.hunters had tough years. I think lack of mast had already moved birds out of areas before breakup occured. In other words turkeys did not distibute themselves at normal times and at normal places but rather held them in a more uneven distibution despite good habitat. Weather and slow spring progression I think was the culprit. Uncertain weather tends to keep turkeys together despite reproductive influences. We had places that were great and places we have always done well on that we couldnt hear a bird on. All that said I think my area does not have the turkeys the habitat would dictate. Weather, predators, certainly are some limiting factors.

[quote="WVBOY"][
Could be I"m just not as good of a hunter as I used to be though ..[/quote]


Nobody who knows you is buying that line.!!

Well, I will agree on one thing that has been known for years and the only sure way to judge a turkeys age 2,3,4,5,6 is through a like DNA test. My question to Mr. chamberlain would be did they trap and only radioed Jakes? Usually when trapped and studied you tagged the birds you caught in the nets and recorded them, well I guess now the old way and released them. Maybe he is taking a like DNA from them when trapped.

Most all States and biologists use the Spurs thing like most of us do for judging age, but some States use beard length as under 7” is young and over 7” is mature (not to accurate,ie beard rot etc)

But yea he is correct so far as using spur length is somewhat of an incorrect way of judging age.

Like deer the one way of age is looking at the teeth wear and dentien. That takes some knowledge when aging them.

But most all biologists that I know for study and research since a like DNA would be costly they use the spur length thing.But only up to saying Jake, 2 yo 3 plus. Some just say Jake and after that mature bird. Thats why I get a kick out of folks saying super jake. The spur length aging has been studied since the 40’s. It is a good estimate that most use. The known 5.5 yo that was killed with the 3/4” spur or what I think would be the spur bone that most all male turkeys have that grows to approximately 3/4”. Then the spur cap grows up and around the spur bone at a certain rate. Those caps can be easily twisted off by you or broken off in the wild. The 1.5” 2 yo, have not a clue. What species and where were the findings discovered?
So for now I will not be sending my turkey for a like DNA but say nice maybe 2 year old.

As yourself and others know All the turkey subspecies depending on area have somewhat different spur growth and shape depending also on terrain.

And I am sure with more studies and research new make up of the wild turkey will come out.
Kinda like in the days when turkey groups were known as droves now, a flock.
Used to be spitting and droning now spitting and drumming.
Maybe Mr Chamberlin can answer the old age question, what the heck is the dew lap’s purpose on a turkey do?


Earl

I had more hunter interference this year on public land than ever in VA. I attribute it to the lock-downs and assume the high harvest is due to that also. NC set a new harvest record for the same reason.

Ditto..