An interesting article from FIELD AND STREAM says the wild turkey population in the eastern US has dropped by an estimated 800,000 birds between 2004 and now. Many of us are familiar with several studies in the southeast suggesting the population are down in various states. Here is the article link from the magazine.


https://www.fieldandstream.com/special- ... eastern-us

Ive been aware of the studies elsewhere , and from my own observation, I think there are some serious drops in bird numbers in several states where I hunt or have hunted. I have no idea what the causes really are. Perhaps like the grouse it is a death by a thousand cuts-predation, disease, weather, climate change, too many hunters and too liberal limits...who knows.

The article suggest the "good old days" are perhaps behind us. I will have yo admit there have been many hunting days where I have said to myself: " It would be hard to beat this day or this season" . I sure hope the best is not , in fact, in the rear view mirror. I wish all of you a great season. This year and in 2035 as well. The article is worth reading IMO.

It does seem to be slim pickings around my neck of the woods the last couple of years.. maybe I'm not forgetting how to hunt after all .. Good article.

Was a good read, thanks GN. I think it is a bunch of things together. The one we have the most control over is hunting pressure.

I know up here there are a lot more predators too, Bald Eagle populations are very high along with other raptors, also yote populations are high and expanding.

I hope they get it figured out.
V

I have hunted the same farm since 1988 and never really noticed much difference in population. Some years I had lots of birds others not so much. Never saw a “trend” downward. I did hunt an occasional different spot until recently when I got some new spots counties away from that farm.
This new place is covered in birds. It’s crazy. Last Sunday I was on stand trying to arrow a doe and I had over 20 hens in the field in front of me who were joined by ELEVEN long beards.
I know this isn’t the way it is everywhere, but I am not seeing a decline at these spots.

Yep fairly much what has been said. But "the good old days" are today. As a couple folks on here that have hunted back in the 50's, 60's, 70's and through the 80's know there are more turkeys today then back then. Like the editor of that article started hunting in the early 90's when the turkey population was booming and the commercialization was hitting full throttle.

But yea habitat is one of the main issues. Poult hatching and survival is another big issue, as in that article. He touched on carrying capacity. I am waiting on the next symposium to come out as I heard biologist's have been studying once the turkeys reach thier carrying capacity that the breeding is less.

Also this is just me and my observation over the years that turkeys are adopting to thier surroundings so far as predators, hunting pressure, habitat, etc.
i.e. in the fall, when breaking up droves with dogs or no dogs that the birds are gathering back together other then the break sight area. Sometimes 200 yards from the break. Less talk from the regathering birds coming back in even the poults. When they do talk it is in a very low volume. Also in the spring, but again there are so many variables involved that I have noticed less gobbling, especially when they hit the ground with or without hens. Or coming to a call, more clucking or spit and droning. Is that because of preditors, I would think so with all the yotes around here. I am calling more and more yotes in every fall and spring. At least I sound like a turkey to them.

I will offend. What was touched on was the hunting pressure in the spring. I believe that some seasons open to early and that breeding, nesting and hatching are disturbed. I know some of you will say, look Earl you idiot if what you just stated is somewhat true then if waiting till hatching is over we may not even have a spring season. EXACTLY! No,, although the breeding and all may be somewhat disturbed I believe it would have little effect as all the other issues that have been discussed have a greater effect.

But like GN and others stated, some are seeing declines in some areas others are seeing about the same. What is causing the decline in those areas is any laymen's guess. Hope fully the biologists in any area are looking into not just the turkey but all wildlife. But good old funding is a huge obstacle.

Up in PA where I hunt, there is the most turkeys anyone has seen in 20 years. But still a lot of good farming and timber practices going on there. They are starting a 10 year turkey management program throughout the whole state. I talked with the turkey biologist there (Mary Jo) since she said they took our plan from 2012 here in VA and based thiers on that and thier ideas. Sounds like if implemented that it may prove successful.

This is a great discussion, thanks for starting it GN and all that have had input. Hopefully we can continue with more input from all. I know we may not solve it but this board is looked at by some in positions.

Earl

2035 is the year I plan to retire, I hope there is still a decent population around

I think a fair amount of it is habitat changes on farms. Example is I have been hunting the same exact farm for 12 years. When I originally got to hunt there, the farm was truly a farm. Corn was planted, Alfalfa fields in lots of places and the owner was doing a serious amount of predator control. Whether it be Coons, or Skunks, or Feral cats or Foxes, he was knocking them down on a regular basis because he spend a lot of time there. He also had probably 7 food plots around the area for deer, which just happened to help the turkeys a lot also.

Fast forward 12 years and the Alfalfa fields are now hay fields of Orchard Grass. The corn fields are gone to be replaced by CRP that is probably 5 to 6 feet tall and so thick nothing can walk in there except the occasional deer that have paths weaving their way thru it. The farm which used to have 4 or 5 covies of quail now have none as the owner decided to semi-retire move full time to Fort Myer Florida for weather and no state income tax. Where they used to have a wonderful garden because they were there all summer long, is now part of the yard. Been 5 years since they had the garden.

Point above is the farm has changed in a big way. I still shoot birds on it, because it has some great nesting habitat and he has some of the best hard woods around. However the numbers of the birds have changed in a big way. Where I used to have probably 5 gobblers on the farm and about 6 or 7 Jakes, there are now normally 2 gobblers and a handful of Jakes. To me its all about the habitat and predators and to a lesser degree weather (although we have had 2 bad springs in a row.

No one traps at the farm now and every time I go there (including twice last week) I run into feral cats. Damn things are everywhere. The only thing that helps on the feral cats is the fact the Yotes have moved on the farm in big way. Nothing to see 2 or 3 on trailcams every time I pull the cards (about once every ten days).

In short, I certainly believe numbers are down, but I for the most part think its a change in habitat. The good news is I'm the only one that hunts there so its pretty easy to pattern the few birds that are there. The bad news is the owner is now seriously thinking about selling. Its over 200 acres and that's pretty hard to come by 1 hour from Northern Va. I'll sure miss it when its gone. Have killed a bunch of nice birds there.

These are my favorite threads bc I believe they are valid. Less turkeys in my opinion? Yes

Less gobbling? Yes

Reasons? I think increase in hunters and coyotes. But, I’m probably wrong. It just seems strange to me that numbers and turkey vocals started dropping when both of the above increased.

Well stated short and to the point. Although habitat is key. The less gobbling I believe just from personal observation are the totes and increase of hunters. We just had a great discussion of that this past Saturday at a DGIF and NWTF turkey hunting workshop/mentor day.


Earl

[quote="Roy S"]These are my favorite threads bc I believe they are valid. Less turkeys in my opinion? Yes

Less gobbling? Yes

Reasons? I think increase in hunters and coyotes. But, I’m probably wrong. It just seems strange to me that numbers and turkey vocals started dropping when both of the above increased.[/quote]

Well said, but I think nest predation may actually have more to do with the decline than anything else, although there area lot of factors against them today.

I agree with all said. I don't think there is just one reason, it is a culmination of many things, increase in hunters, yes, increase in nest predation, yes, increase in predators, yes, on the ground and in the air.

All these combined have reduced turkey numbers. For example, they have blocked the sale of furs to China and Russia, I think. With this simple thing the price of furs has dropped a lot. I talked to one friend and trapping doesn't even pay for the traps. Less trapping, more nest predators, racoons, opossum, etc.....

Turkey hunting has become very popular compared to what it was, so allowing 2 to 3 birds each may not of mattered years back, but it you have doubled hunting population, bird numbers can drop fast.

Guess it is all a balancing act. I think the main factor we can control easily is birds taken per season. I guess DNR could put bounties on some animals, racoons, but doubt that will happen.

Since moving I actually have turkeys near my house, yea. I might ask the farmer about trapping some or predator hunting. Got to get moved in first.

Guess this isn't concise, sorry. Guess this topic concerns me.
Vic

Interesting update on spring kill numbers in Ky and Tenn , which have declined recently for couple of years: both states telechek results through mid season show both seem to be headed for good years, closer to the "good years" from a recent 2-3 year decline. may be too soon to tell, but that would be a real good thing to get numbers back up. The hunter telechek info does however show that counties that had severe declines are still low but the other counties that had a stable base of birds and no big declines recently have shown significant increases this year over last couple...all generally speaking.

Habitat and predation are the keys, here, as they are in all of the species on earth. It is very difficult to increase or maintain stable populations if habitat decreases. Fragmentation of farms, changes in farming practices, timber management (lack thereof) do not help the life cycles of turkeys or other species (bobwhites, grouse, deer, etc). My speculation is that brooding cover is the biggest issue in the habitat realm. That segues well into predation, as its difficult to hide poults (or fawns, or chicks, or...) where there is no ground cover. A small patch of grass looks like a perfect spot for a nest, but your nest predators see that, too, and don't have to go through as much effort to find nests (or fawns, etc). Increase brooding cover and fecundity has a chance to increase. I feel this idea is supported by the notion that declines seem to be fairly localized, while other areas are doing "better than ever" or as good as always.

Another culprit may just be nature. Turkeys were eradicated from much (if not all, I am not read on the fine details locally) of the region. When a species is introduced to new areas without competition they boom to levels well above the biological carrying capacity. They are destined to bust again and drop below the BCC before booming again and busting again to a long term average of stability. Maybe this is part of what we are experiencing? I feel this idea is supported in the fact that we are seeing this decline nation wide.

I'll be curious to see what the next few years bring. It is looking like we are about to have our third wet spring in a row, which certainly doesn't help things, either.

Here's to happy hunting and lots of turkeys.

Best,
Royce

I wrote a long update and somehow didn't get it posted. But here is the summary of what I said....info is from state sites and internet

As of today Ky and Tenn are up slightly for the 2019 spring over last year but still down 15% more or less form averages of five good prior years before the last two.

Missouri had the worst spring season in decades, down 25 % or so from last years then worst season ever.

Kansas has had worst season in long time, down 25 % more or less from last year.

Easy to blame some of this on bad weather during hatch or hunting season dates, but there is far more than weather involved IMO...

Received an e-mail from Gary Norman yesterday that stated in part "Surprisingly, the harvest is running ahead of 2016 and 2018 levels. Not as high as 2017 or 2015. But, given the poor reproduction we've seen recently, I've been predicting the harvest would be off. So much for that conventional wisdom." FYI